Camino and Safari Compared
Pages: 1, 2
Tabs, Baby
No sooner had Safari made it out into the wild, than many users were clamoring for tabbed browsing. Long available in Mozilla, Opera, and other browsers, the use of tabs to bring together a screenload of web browser windows into a smaller, single-window package has become a very popular feature (although there are some who consider tabs alien to the Mac way of doing things).
If you're one of those people who thinks tabs are essential to modern web browsing, Camino has it all wrapped up. Compare viewing four different web pages at once in Camino (Figure 2) and Safari (Figure 3). Tabs make a real difference to people with limited screen space. Camino offers a simple Command-{ keyboard shortcut for switching from one tab to the next, but in both browsers you can use the little-documented Command-` shortcut for navigating a stack of windows. Many people (myself included) find the tabbed format a useful way of browsing many pages in a short time. Others find them handy for grouping together similar pages, such as a series of weblogs, for reading in one go.
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Comparing Features and Tools
Bookmark management is handled in different ways, too. Camino spits out a sidebar, inside which you can edit and manipulate your bookmarks (Figure 4). Safari's bookmark manager is much like Apple's other iApps (such as iTunes and iPhoto), but when in use covers up the browser window you were using (Figure 5).
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Safari's history is accessed directly from a menu item, with most recent items clearly shown first and older items ordered by date (Figure 6). It's a neat, attractive solution and somewhat faster and simpler to use than Camino's sidebar, which is now home to a new global history menu.
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Browsers are increasingly designed to reflect things that web users really want. Hence, both Camino and Safari offer simple-to-use pop-up window blocking systems, freeing your screen from unwanted, intrusive advertising forever, if you so choose. (I've used pop-up blocking for so long now, that last time I had to use Internet Explorer for something I was astonished by a pop-up--I even took a few seconds to read it.)
Another popular innovation in browser design is the ability to start a search within the browser itself, rather than having to wait a few seconds to download a search site first. Safari's built-in search box has proved itself a useful addition, but it's a pity that it can only be used to search Google. While Google is everyone's favorite search site, it would be nice to be able to change this behavior and select from a list of search options. Perhaps this is something that will appear when Safari gets out of beta ... or not!
Camino does not have a similar built-in search module, although hacks exist that enable searching from inside the address bar; still, it's a pity something like this is not available out of the box.
You Takes Your Pick, You Makes Your Choice
So, which is the better browser? Sheesh, don't ask me. I'm as indecisive as the next person, and in the last month my default browser setting has fluttered between Chimera, Safari, and Mozilla. Each has features I like, each has niggles I dislike, and none has all of the lovely features and none of the niggles.
At the time of writing this article, the default browser on my iBook is Safari--mainly because I still use a modem to get on the Internet (don't get me started on broadband access in rural England), and consequently, speed counts. I decided that for the vast majority of my web browsing, getting there fast was the most important thing. Hence, Safari.
But prior to Safari's appearance, my favorite browser was Chimera, and no competitors even had a look-in. It had much of the good stuff from Mozilla (the rendering, the standards support) but without the bloat, and it was much, much faster than its parent.
Personally, I like using tabs and that's something I miss whenever I fire up Safari. It's possible that they'll be added to Safari in the future, and this might make me less likely to turn to Camino when I have lots of browsing to do, but not much real estate. And every now and then, Safari trips up on something or other (usually a layout glitch), and my cursor flicks over to the Camino icon in the Dock. Mozilla, Camino, and Safari all have a place there, sitting happily side-by-side.
Perhaps it's too easy to get over-excited about something as basic as a web browser. In these connected times, lots of us spend a lot of time in our browsers, so we tend to get attached to certain features. Even when another browser comes along without those features, that's no reason for getting upset about it.
What we should also remember is that browsers are almost always free, and the developers of all of them--Camino, Safari, and the rest of the gang--deserve the Internet community's thanks for the time and effort they put into their work.
Giles Turnbull is a freelance writer and editor. He has been writing on and about the Internet since 1997. He has a web site at http://gilest.org.
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Showing messages 1 through 37 of 37.
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Great & Unique: Camino's sidebar & Safari's AutoFill
2003-04-21 01:23:44 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Theses are both incredible browsers. Other than the functions in my subject line, I'd commend Safari's ability to download from the cache when possible, rather than re-downloading data already in your hard drive's cache as Camino does. I realized while writing this that Autofill can be added to Camino via a third-party utility [I believe TypeIt4Me is one such utility].
Two incredible browsers; Well done & congratulations browser people.
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Safari rox!
2003-04-07 20:05:56 csoto [Reply | View]
It's great. I use it for just about every site. The absolute best features is the BUG REPORTING! I reported the 4 or 5 URLs that didn't quite work, and each time a Safari update was released, it fixed most of them! Talk about customer service! More open source systems should work this way (bugzilla is half-way there, but Safari nails it).
Charles
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The one thing I like about Explorer
2003-03-31 14:33:06 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Since the first time I used Chimera, Explorer has become an emergency-only application for me. It is laughable how slow Microsoft managed to make it. They must have really worked hard at that.
That said, there is one feature of Explorer I sorely miss. If you start typing an address in the addressbar in IE, it auto-completes it. Nothing particularly special there. But the way IE implements this has three awesome advantages:
1. It matches on any part of the address, so you can type "2003" and match on this article.
2. It matches on any part of the TITLE of the document. So you could type "Camino" and it would match on this article. (Note that IE doesn't let you rename your bookmarks on the fly, which would be really handy with this feature.)
3. It matches on both History and Bookmarks. So you can find any page you've been to recently or any page you've ever bookmarked by just starting to type.
Mix these features together, and you have a VERY powerful combination. You can say, "Gee, last week I was browsing something about camino." Type "Camino" in your addressbar, and there it is. Or type "macdev" or whatever. Or if you think you might want to return to a page ever, just bookmark it, and you can always easily find it.
One other thing... in IE, performing searches on your bookmarks is much better than Camino or Safari.
That said, I still laugh when I think of the stone age days of using Explorer. Friggin' Microsoft!
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camino tabs: correction
2003-03-29 17:27:23 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
in the article, the writer states that to bookmark a "tab group", you have to open the bookmarks drawer, put several bookmarks into a folder, get info on that folder, and then click a checkbox. i've never done it this way, what a waste of time! just open each page in a new tab, then right-click (or command click) on a tab and select "bookmark all tabs". there's your tab group bookmark, couldn't be easier.
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Tabs not "alien" to Mac OS X
2003-03-29 10:04:27 vlb [Reply | View]
I feel sorry for those who claim that tabs are "un-maclike". They are stuck in ClassicMacland. Tabs weren't very prominent in Mac OS 7/8/9 but they are a full citizen of Aqua. Just take a look at many of the System preferences... or the Aqua Human Interface Guidelines! -
Tabs not "alien" to Classic MacOS either.
2003-04-05 01:08:27 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
"They are stuck in ClassicMacland."
I read the anti-tab rant linked to by this article. The author of that is a pompous idiot, but this "ClassicMacland" comment is making the same mistake. It's hard to see how tabs on 8 or 9 are any less prominent than in X. And the general concept of "flipping the page" on a window's contents using a row or column of controls can be seen with the System 6 Control Panel... the current System Preferences app in X is like a very poor version of that.
One thing I wish would change with tabbed browsing, though, is having tabs on the side instead of along the top. I hate seeing tabs and tab names shrink Windows Taskbar Style. Stick them in a side bar so that the width doesn't change and the names can be read.
Hell, if the OS X Finder had a tab/favorites sidebar, this would be a big improvement over using Dock aliases, and the single-window navigation mode would probably gain more traction among long time Mac users... and then maybe Steve Jobs could stop pouting about users cluttering their desktops.
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NO, Safari NOT faster - this needs to stop being said!
2003-03-28 11:35:16 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Great article on Camino vs. Safari, with the exception of the omission of the Keychain feature advantage that Safari lacks.
I'd like to dispel the myth that Safari is faster than Camino. Apple's "benchmarks" have nothing to do with my reality. I just compared sites again, as I have in the past:
•Amazon is faster on Camino
•CNN faster on Camino
•Macsurfer faster on Camino
•NWS weather site faster on Camino
I refreshed and timed it for each site, Camino is 25 to 50% faster in most cases. I have yet to see a situation where Safari is faster. I am curious to know what sites Safari loads faster.
That being said, Camino crashes WAY too often lately. (0.7 toolbar-bookmarks build)
Thanks,
Joe -
YES, Safari IS faster.
2003-04-06 22:41:27 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Safari beats the pants off of Camino on both of my machines, neither of which are high-end. It is consistantly faster on both my 700MHZ flat-panel iMac and even on my 500MHZ bondi blue. -
NO, Safari NOT faster - this needs to stop being said!
2003-04-01 08:35:49 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
In what universe is safari faster? Who believes that? Maybe it is on some 1.42 gig dual proc machine, but on every one of my machines (all single proc, some G3, some G4), Camino knocks the pants off of Safari. Safari feels like IE almost when compared with Camino.
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Shared menu support
2003-03-28 07:43:18 rblumberg [Reply | View]
I use both URL Manager Pro and Web Confidential, and Camino supports those applications better than Safari with full shared menu support. With the latest version of UMP, browsers without that support still have a menu icon with UMP's bookmarks, but Camino lets me manage the shared menu apps more powerfully.
Neither browser gives the good form autofill features that IE and Mozilla offer, although Camino does a nice job of remembering login passwords; Safari does not.
But I also have the three (Camino, Safari, and Mozilla) grouped in my dock and frequently use them all.
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Camino vs Safari
2003-03-28 04:44:16 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
A few comments. (1) Personally, I haven't noticed any edge in speed with Safari. With many of the sites I visit, Camino is noticeably faster. I use DSL, so Safari could be faster if one uses a dialup connection. (2) I can't see the article while I'm entering this, but <command>clicking the dock doesn't allow one to chose a bookmark folder to open from the dock. It shows Camino in the Finder. (3) One must <ctrl>click a folder in the sidebar then use <command>I to set Camino to open all bookmarks in that folder in different tabs.
I think I noticed other errors in the article, but I can't recall them at this point. Being a glib writer doesn't mean you shouldn't review (or have someone else review) your article for accuracy!
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Keychain
2003-03-26 16:41:16 myshkin5 [Reply | View]
Camino/Chimera definitely used the Keychain right. It's is the only feature I miss in Safari. I have over 30 passwords in my Keychain thanks to Chimera.
Now if I could link passwords together and get Apple to fix other problems like Mail.app caching it's passwords...
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Latest updates
2003-03-26 16:02:53 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Well, if pre-release seeds have anything to say, then the next publicly released version of Safari will have tabs, much like Camino does now. And the next version of Camino will have a bookmarks window much like Safari's instead of the drawer. (This change is already in the Camino nightly builds.)
It looks like the two are getting closer together rather than further apart. The big difference remains the rendering engine. I (personally) prefer Safari's look to that of Camino... but its largely subjective.
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brushed metal
2003-03-26 13:39:35 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I won't use Safari as long as they insist on the brushed metal look. It just looks ugly and unsuited in this kind of application. Sure you can turn it off but Apple really needs to reconsider. Camino suits me very well, don't use tabs too much but I like to have the possibility. -
brushed metal
2003-04-17 17:34:13 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I didn't like the brushed metal either, and I found a perfect solution to make it aqua, and it looks amazing! First, install the developer tools if you haven't already. Then, find the Safari application on your computer (not on the dock, in a Finder window) and control-click it. Move down to "Show Package Contents". A window will open, then open up Contents>Resources>English.lproj and open the file Browser.nib. Open up the info window in Interface Builder (shift+command+i) and with the window selected, deselect the "textured" box. You may need to edit a few other nib files too. This should work in other Cocoa apps too.
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Safari's Bookmarks
2003-03-26 13:29:38 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I do like the way Safari's bookmark feature is set-up. If you like browsing from the "Bookmarks Bar" you can do that. If you like using a menu you can do that as well. There is a problem with Safari's bookmarks, in my opinion, in the way they are saved. A .plist (XML) file that is not understood by the other programs. So to import bookmarks from Safari is a pain. I personally think bookmarks should all be saved in the format IE uses because they act like a regular web page when viewed in a browser. And that you could mark a particular bookmarks file as being your bookmark holder. This would allow all programs to draw off of that file or add to it. Kind of like the Address Book for Mail of Web Browsers.
Thanks,
MactOSiX
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Safari: Jaguar-challenged need not apply
2003-03-26 12:22:46 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
I would love to try Safari, but it is the *ONLY* browser that requires 10.2 to run, so I am out of luck. Safari does not exist for me. (And at this point, I'm strongly considering waiting for Panther, and not even bothering with Jaguar.)
I mostly use Chimera, due to the tabbed browsing.
I love iCab for its Download Manager, and myriad preferences. Its lack of CSS support is damning, but I'm still surprised more people don't use it. The things it does do, it does brilliantly, and far better than any other browser. I don't think people appreciate the incredible range of download options it provides. Play around with it; you'll be amazed.
And of course, when I want to see pretty text, I still fire up OmniWeb once in a while.
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Cookies
2003-03-26 08:02:23 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Currently I'm using Safari... mostly for its speed. When it comes out of beta, if it still doesn't support tabbed browsing and better cookie management (like or better than Camino... like OmniWeb would be best) and better password management, it's back to Camino.
Jennifer
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There Tabs in Safari
2003-03-26 03:10:03 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Just look at newer versions.
So Safari is taking features from Camino and Camino is now taking a lot of features from Safari.
They are both free so you can use them both. No need to decide which one to use :-) -
There Tabs in Safari
2003-03-29 00:21:10 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Tabs in Safari are NICE.
They look really well integrate into the browser, and show you their loading status as you look at other pages. -
There Tabs in Safari
2003-03-29 10:09:54 vlb [Reply | View]
Where and how are you getting tabs in Safari? The Public Beta release hasn't been updated since mid-February. -
There Tabs in Safari
2003-04-22 09:32:38 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Here is the link for download :
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/safari.html
Recommend reloading the page and checking out that the following sentence exists in the Whats new notes :
What?s New in this Version
Safari Public Beta 2 features tabbed browsing, autofill forms & passwords,...
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Send Link with Safari
2003-03-26 01:24:52 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
It's what Services are for :
-Select the link in the address bar by clicking the icon next to it.
- Go to Safari->Services->Mail->Send selection To
JY.
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Missed points
2003-03-25 23:17:19 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
Camino does a better job with handling cookies (i.e., prompting) than Safari. It also does a better job with Keychain storage of passwords (Safari does it, but seems to forget them after a bit). On the other hand, Safari get major bonuses for being a *proper* Cocoa app, by which I mean that I can turn on spell checking for this text area, and it also handles double- and triple-click selection properly. I don't know what widgets Camino uses in rendering pages, but the various text handling bugs are annoying enough that I can't make it my main browser. Of course, the saddest thing of all is that OmniWeb has pretty much vanished as a contender for the platform's major browser. -
Missed points
2003-03-26 14:31:34 Giles Turnbull |
[Reply | View]
Yeah it's a shame to see OmniWeb fading away. It was my default browser for a while, and I did love the good things it did ... but when Camino first appeared (as Chimera), there was really no contest. OmniWeb had some great features, and we shouldn't write it off just yet. Who knows, it might yet be updated. -
OmniWeb
2003-03-26 08:06:14 charlesa1 [Reply | View]
"Of course, the saddest thing of all is that OmniWeb has pretty much vanished as a contender for the platform's major browser."
Agreed. I still use OmniWeb as my primary browser and have maybe two dozen custom search shortcuts defined - not just for Google and AltaVista, but for the the likes of the IMDB, dictionary.com, fedex, weather.com, the jargon file and Apple's movie trailers. That and cookie management are the two things that have me sticking with OW.
That and I have a long-standing history of rooting for underdogs. -
OmniWeb
2003-03-26 14:35:35 Giles Turnbull |
[Reply | View]
Yeah it's a shame to see OmniWeb fading away. It was my default browser for a while, and I did love the good things it did ... but when Camino first appeared (as Chimera), there was really no contest. OmniWeb had some great features, and we shouldn't write it off just yet. Who knows, it might yet be updated.
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FYI
2003-03-25 19:28:07 googolplex [Reply | View]
FYI the most recent nightly builds of Camino have a new bookmark manager very similar to the one in Safari. It isn't complete yet, but it looks promising. -
FYI
2003-03-28 08:39:26 anonymous2 [Reply | View]
They're also now on the Mozilla Trunk so it's a bit faster. -
FYI
2003-03-26 14:13:58 Giles Turnbull |
[Reply | View]
That's something worth knowing. Thanks, I shall start downloading... be interesting to see how they're implementing it.











This is similar to Photoshop's tabbed palettes which can be rearranged by dragging individual palettes in and out of groups in the same way. Try this in Photoshop to see how well it works.